Hint CEO & Founder: Kara Goldin


Kara grew up in the suburbs of Phoenix, Arizona and naturally developed the skill of persistence growing up.  In her early years she worked many different jobs including working at a toy store, interning for a local senator, and waiting tables at a local Mexican restaurant.  After college she used unique approaches to reach people and get hired at a media company in New York.

Listen to the full episode to get the full scoop on

- How Kara used unique communication approaches to reach senior executives early in her career

- Why storytelling is so important in marketing and brand-building

- Important skills she emphasizes, and tailored advice that she has for you while you’re on your career journey

Podcast Transcript

Note:  There may be errors to this transcript (some funny, some confusing - we used an automated transcription software!)

Kara Goldin  00:00

People invest in people. Right? And this is this is any industry. Any job if people believe that they can have a connection with you in some way. That's the first step.

Ash Faraj  00:15

Inspiring career stories from today's top CEOs, executives and leaders. I'm your host ash and you're tuning in to the executive tox podcast. Before we get into the show, Kara has agreed to give away a few signed copies of her book. Undaunted, if you want a copy, she'll mail it to you directly. Please email me at ash at executalks dot com to put into a request for your signed book. Kara grew up in the suburbs of Phoenix, Arizona and naturally developed the skill of persistence growing up in her early years, she worked many different jobs, including working in a toy store, interning for local senator, and waiting tables at a local Mexican restaurant. After college she used unique approaches to reach people and get hired at a media company in New York. Listen to the full episode to get the full scoop on how Kara used unique communication approaches to reach senior executives early in her career. Why storytelling is so important in marketing and brand building and important skills she emphasizes and tailored advice that she has for you. While you're on your career journey. Make sure you stick around until the end.  We are joined today by the founder and CEO of hint an author of The Wall Street Journal best selling book undaunted Kara Goldin, Kara, thank you for being here. And welcome to the show.

Kara Goldin  01:33

Thank you for having me. Very excited to be here.

Ash Faraj  01:35

I'm going to senior high school classroom with you who is Kara relative to other kids.

Kara Goldin  01:39

Well, I had an really interesting senior year actually, my father was transferred to in his job from Scottsdale, Arizona to Omaha, Nebraska. We hadn't sold our house yet. So it so my parents knew that I was a senior in high school and they said, Listen, you can stay in Arizona, if you would like finish out your year, my husband still thinks this is like almost too much. Because he can't even imagine his parents saying that. I guess that's what happens when you're the last of five kids. So I went to my, my high school counselor and said to him, hey, my, my parents are actually going to go to Nebraska, I'm thinking of staying in Arizona, and he said, Well, you actually have enough credits to graduate before my senior year. And you know, it's a funny story for many who have never lived in Arizona. And maybe it's because it's so hot in Arizona a year round. But summer school is actually a very common thing to do for high school students or it was back then. And so it was kind of a way for you to connect with other high schools and you know, the social scene as well as getting some classes out of your way. So I guess that allowed me by doing summer school every year to have enough credits to graduate. So what I ended up doing my senior year was waitressing at a local Mexican restaurant to make some money. And then I also got a lot of my classes at community college out of the way too. So I was I was still checking in with my high school friends and still going out. But my high school year was was really, I think, a little more unique than most

Ash Faraj  03:32

you know, growing up, your father worked for food conglomerate, right. And you mentioned the book that your father wanted to be an entrepreneur, but he never did, because he was afraid that you know, he wouldn't be able to support you and your siblings and your mom also had her dreams. And you know, both your parents chose not to pursue them. In the book, you asked him, you know, you had built this healthy, healthy choice, the food brand, you had built this up, and why don't you go out on your own, you know, and he says, oh, Kara, that would be too hard. And I just remember like pausing at that moment, I was reading your book and thinking, Do you think that if it wasn't for your you know, parents not choosing to pursue their dreams? Do you think that kind of you wouldn't have the entrepreneurial spirit that you have today?

Kara Goldin  04:09

I think that's absolutely true. Right? I believe that everyone in their journey are picking up things that you know, frankly, if if you and I were just to meet today, Ash, like I wouldn't know everything that you had been through because maybe you wouldn't think that that was what shaped you. Right? Maybe you would pick up on one or two things that shaped you but then there was these little nuggets along the way that ended up having a huge part of who you become. And for me, you know, watching my dad in the food industry, his idea of a way to differentiate healthy choice which is still to this day, one of the top products at ConAgra was to really storytel around the suppliers are Round, you know, the shrimp fishermen who helped to make the products what they were so that he could describe the quality and how they sourced it locally, all of those things. I mean, this is like, really early days of storytelling and what was fascinating, the large company, it was initially armour food company, they allowed it to, that's where healthy choice was started, they allowed it to stay on the packaging, and they embraced it. But when armour food company was acquired by ConAgra, that's where the story got dropped. They didn't believe at ConAgra, that actually differentiating with the story was the way to engage with consumers. I don't even know if we called it engagement back then. But they thought it made the product look small. And I remember being a kid thinking, I think it just makes the product stand out. And it makes me want to buy the product and all of the things that I still believe today. So absolutely, I think that, you know, growing up under somebody who was, I think, in many ways fighting those conversations, and he would come home and we'd sit down at the dinner table. And it wasn't like he was naturally complaining, I think it was more of a, I disagree with them. But you know, they're the boss, right? So they're the ones that's good that I'm going to have to go along with this as long as I'm here. And I think maybe a little bit of a distrust in large companies in the way that they make decisions. We're also shaped back during that time. But I also believed and still believe to this day that it was it was a unique time that it was a time when my dad really believed that if he had two jobs, that was kind of bad, right that most people would graduate from school, and, you know, maybe go into the military, and then they would have a job for the rest of their life. They would have a pension, they would, you know, be there forever. I mean, can you imagine making one decision in your life that is so, you know, unique to what goes on today. And I mean, he was almost embarrassed that he had had a couple of jobs. And I've sat with that for years and thought, I'm happy that times have changed, where people can kind of go out and find themself and try and figure out exactly, you know, what they want to do today. And what they're most passionate about that maybe is a little bit of a shift.

Ash Faraj  07:41

Yeah, my dad's the same way. He's been at Boeing for like, 30 something years right at a college. And he thought he thought it was so strange that I only spent two years at a job. He's like, I'm like, a different age, you know?

Kara Goldin  07:50

Yeah. And they were and you know, I think it's a generational thing. I have four Gen Z's living in my house. And I, I could write a book on that how different they are and how you unique. I think today Gen Z wants engagement. And if they don't have engagement, and if they don't feel like their opinions are valued, valued in some way, or listen to starting with in a classroom, in a job, on social, whatever they make decisions on, you know, whether or not they're going to stay.

Ash Faraj  08:22

Yeah, by the way, I thought it was so cool. How your father, he pretty much invented the idea of like writing stories and packaging, and I was like the way the dots connect in your life this crazy. But so so when you were a kid, also, you know, growing up, there's a theme that you were kind of that you were really persistent, right? Like you had a lot of persistence. Where do you think that like, the quality of like, persistence came from?

Kara Goldin  08:43

Well, I think when you're the last child, and you know what the last five in particular, you you have to speak up. So everything from you know, and plus, I had two brothers and two sisters. You know, I remember getting home from gymnastics late, and you know, the dinner would be gone, because my brothers would just eat it. Right? And I, I would be like, Wait, what happened? Well, you weren't here. And we didn't know, you know, like the whole thing. And so you know, you have to start speaking up for yourself. I mean, that's just one example. No matter what you're you're going through, I think that if you don't actually say something, then don't expect it to change. And I think that that's what I learned. You know, very early on. A lot of people have said to me, you know, you walked into an industry that you knew nothing about, didn't you have a lot of fears. And for me, there was an excitement, and maybe some confidence from years ago that I thought, I don't know how long it's going to take me to really understand this industry. But I know that if I'm really passionate about something and I want to learn it, that I can. You can't learn everything mostly because maybe you're not really that interested in it. Maybe you're not really that passionate about But I truly believe that if you set your mind to it, you get rid of the doubts in your head, you get rid of the doubters around you that don't believe that you can do something. You can, it starts with you.

Ash Faraj  10:13

Yeah, make the decision before you figure out how I like that. So another important part of your life, when you're in high school, you have this job as a waitress in a Mexican restaurant. This is so important, I think, you know, the seemingly unglamorous job, right? Like, not many people be like, oh, I want to be a waitress or, you know, but it enabled you to build powerful connections with people who would potentially employ you potential employers. Is that right?

Kara Goldin  10:34

Yeah, I mean, it was, it was an amazing experience, you always make the best of the situation that you're in, right? And you try and figure out who can I meet along the way? What can I learn? That's just, you know, one place in my life where I feel like there were, you know, people will say, Oh, you know, you were a waitress like, Was that really bad? Was it boring? Was it hard? Was it, you know, frustrating? Whatever, I learned a ton. In that job. I learned a lot about business, that restaurant is still there to this day, almost 100 years later, because they figured out the business of, you know, how do you turn tables fast enough? How do you continue to have quality ingredients in your food? How do you continue to do those things? So again, like I was learning these things, at a really young age, and asking questions of people, that we're managing those restaurants, like, why is food out of the kitchen so fast here, but maybe it's not out in other restaurants? And, and I think if you have that curiosity, that drive to go and do those things, I don't think I'll ever own a restaurant, who knows. But I learned so much.

Ash Faraj  11:53

So you learned early in your life, from all these experiences, toy stores, beauty salons, you know, government and restaurants, that your curiosity about what drives people drives you, like you love to learn about what drives others, right? Do you think that, you know, maybe there's some sort of exercise that people can do to figure out what drives them? Or do you think that you can only learn about what drives you through experiences?

Kara Goldin  12:12

Looking at what you do every day, as, as having some sort of purpose? Right? And, and having some kind of understanding? And instead of feeling sorry for yourself in some way, try and figure out what this means to the your bigger purpose? And what are you learning along the way? Maybe it's that you're learning that you don't like to do certain things, right? So then you have to figure out, how do you not be in a position where you're doing those things every single day. But again, I often think that we have to go through challenging times, or we have to go through learnings along the way in order to get from point A to point B. And I'm also just a big believer that we don't always understand until later how those things are going to help us. For example, when I got my kind of first real job, I call it was that Time Magazine. And I wanted to be on the editorial side, and I couldn't get a job on the editorial side. So I thought, at least I'll get my foot in the door. And I'll work in this group called circulation. I didn't even know what circulation was, I just knew that magazines are circulated. So maybe that's pretty close to the editorial side, I didn't really understand the difference. There was somewhere in the building. It's somewhere in the building. And so when I took this role, I quickly learned that the main part of the circulation that I was working on was the blowing insert cards that fall out of magazines and fall on the ground. You know, that's really annoying pieces of paper that you know, maybe we subscribe, but mostly we throw in the garbage. And as we're looking at a magazine, I certainly didn't want to stay there forever. But I figured out what made the business actually need those those blowing insert cert cards, and I figured out that the people who are making the decisions about the different price on those blowing insert cards like 1997 versus 1999, and how people responded to those things, different language that went on this in the early 90s. And I had no idea how much I would be learning about direct to consumer, how do you figure out what consumers are responding to and how do you shorten copied short? How do you change subscription length or whatever those things are? Again, this is magazine circulation, subscriptions, but it truly is the backbone of what great direct to consumer is today. So you never really know, what you're learning I could have certainly been, you know, depressed that I was sitting in circulation. Why do I have to? Maybe it was a couple of steps above the mailroom. Right. But I was learning so much. And I was willing to be vulnerable to ask a lot of questions. And I think when people, this is another lesson that I've learned, I think when people hear that you're willing to not be the expert, that you're willing to sort of show what you don't know. And you're curious about something, especially when you're young and and eager, and people who are in positions of authority. They love that. Right? They love seeing that curiosity. And I think so many people do not do that enough. They don't ask enough questions. They want to come in and just do what they're told or act like they're, you know, better than something versus actually going and asking the questions, because, you know, it sounds it sounds like you love to ask questions, but also, you appreciate it when other people you see that curiosity that spark and people that you want to share what you know,

Ash Faraj  16:15

yeah, no, it's so totally true. I feel like it lets people's guard down to like, if you come in saying, I know everything makes people feel dumb, then they'll put their guard up, or if but if you come in with humility to ask questions, like, I feel like the people's guard just come down a little bit. So I totally agree with that.

Kara Goldin  16:29

And the last thing I'll say is, it's not just about showing your own vulnerability, but when things like promotions come up, or in the case, when I was in little circulation, it was during the Olympics, and somebody from Sports Illustrated, which at the time was part of, you know, the Time Magazine group, they reached out to me and said, Hey, I was just curious if you'd be interested in going to the Olympics, and helping some of our guests get to their events. And I thought, Wait, what, I had never been to Barcelona. And so I, they flew me to Barcelona, and I made sure that they gave me some extra Olympic tickets that they had. And I mean, again, like it was just this huge opportunity people like, Why do you get to go? And I said, I don't know, I was, you know, just right place right time. But I think also sharing that you're real, right? And you're and you'll engage and when they have opportunities. They're gonna remember you.

Ash Faraj  17:32

Yeah, that's That's powerful. So College, now, right. You didn't know what you wanted to do. So you chose a degree in communications? Is that right?

Kara Goldin  17:40

Mm hmm.

Ash Faraj  17:41

So while you're in school, you know, I remember reading that, you know, you developed kind of like a love for reading magazines, like it was, I think it was in one of your finance classes that you had started reading, reading the Wall Street Journal, and you're like, Oh, my God, like, I love magazines. I love to read magazines. So you really wanted to work in media after school. And this is a critical point that I want to focus on. Because you say in your book that, you know, job opportunities weren't coming to campus. So you were going to find them, right. Take us through what you did to create opportunities for yourself right out of college. And then, you know, I know that you wrote letters, maybe if you could share with us a little bit about what you what you said in those letters, that would be powerful as well.

Kara Goldin  18:14

Yeah. Well, I think first of all, I didn't know any different, right? I just figured that the really cool companies that I wanted to work for, were not coming on campus. So I wanted to be at Fortune magazine, or Wall Street Journal, or People Magazine, when I looked in the mass heads of those magazines, they were all based out of New York, at least the editorial teams were all based out of New York. So I just decided that I've got to figure out how to get that interview. And I mean, this is before LinkedIn or, you know, before social media, where, you know, I think it's so much easier today to get to a senior person and get their attention. I started writing and I think like the one lesson, so many people can take from this. Actually two lessons. Number one, it's very rare that people do what I did, right? That you actually just go and write to somebody randomly because I thought, what's the worst that can happen? They just don't write back. I mean, who cares? Right? And so it's a numbers game, somebody is going to write back to me and friends would hear me say that and they said, Well, what if nobody writes back? I guess I'm no further behind to write.

Ash Faraj  19:32

Just nothing. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Yeah,

Kara Goldin  19:35

yeah, it I mean, who cares, right? But I thought if nothing else would be a great story. If somebody writes back to me, or if nobody writes back to me, then they're all losers, right? Like they're, nobody's going to I mean, they missed out in some way. So number two, I didn't expect anybody to fly me out. It would have been great if they were going to fly me But instead, I just decided I'm going to make it easy for people, I'm going to tell them that I'm actually coming there anyway. And here's why I want to be working in your magazine, it's not about applying for a job, maybe you, you actually see what jobs are available within a company. But I think it's almost more powerful. If you show an interest in the product or the service, and maybe you're picking up on, you know, a recent press release that you saw, or in today's day and age, maybe you happen to see a speech that they did. And it really, really hit you people love talking about themselves, right and love hearing that you actually, you know, heard what they said. And again, people don't write to those people to say, Oh, I heard you on a LinkedIn webinar. And you know, I really, really appreciated what you said about X, try and figure out how to bridge that and make it real. And that's exactly what I did with Fortune Magazine and Marshall lobe, and I told him how I had never really believed that I would be able to get an A and finance classes and really understand finance the way that I do today. But just by focusing and reading his magazine, and thanking him for producing a magazine like that, because it helps somebody like me go from knowing nothing to knowing something. People want to hear those kinds of things about their product or their service, how did it impact you in some way, and you're sharing that with the person that is producing it, that goes a long way. And again, you're not looking for a job, you would just love to meet him or her at some point, again, I never got the job. But I think showing my interest, but also showing your authenticity is another thing that is a very, very powerful driver, because people invest in people, right? And this is this is any industry. Any job if people believe that they can have a connection with you in some way. That's the first step that they believe that there's something there they like you. They don't know why, but they they believe that you're maybe they think you're just entertaining, or you're curious or something,

Ash Faraj  22:40

some sort of synergy or chemistry.

Kara Goldin  22:42

Yeah, I mean, that's life. Right. And I think that that is an especially when you're in challenging times, or if they feel like there's something in you that is going to help them think about things or lift them in some way that that's when you have people right, like that's when you see the connections really fly in some way. So and I think that, you know, again, that's true for a job interview. I was in sports growing up, that was clearly the case with coaches, with teachers. And then I think it reverses to do with employees, and with colleagues. And, you know, it's not a one way street, it is always a two way where, you know, they see you putting time and effort into something, relationships as well. And when they see you doing that, they will reciprocate.

Ash Faraj  23:38

Yeah, I just, the reason why I enjoyed that part of your book so much is because I remember my first job out of college, my task was like, we have these five or six firms I was in construction to get we need to get business out of these five or six firms and I was making sales calls, nobody was responding. And then finally, I decided to try a little something a little out have ever tried this before, but you write like a letter or something. And then you put like, some kind of package in the box, like something personal. So if I wanted to get a meeting with you, for example, I'd maybe put like a disc and write AOL on it or something be like, hey, does this look familiar? And so and then I started working and I was like, Holy crap, like, just got to be a little bit, you know, out of the box in this. I was just like, it's just, we got I just loved that part of your book. What was working in media like?

Kara Goldin  24:17

you know, it was it was very exciting. I mean, it was at a time to when, you know, it sounds crazy today to think back on it, but we call ABC and NBC, you know that in CBS network TV, I mean, they owned television, right? There wasn't lots of channels. I mean, maybe there was 12 channels at most, and on television cable was just coming out. I think cable was in like 40% of households at that time. And there was this guy that was I had heard about I had to have cable I was living in New York City. There were lots of buildings. So in order to actually get any reception. We had to have cable So I had this 24 hour news. And when I wanted to watch the news, I turned it on. And it was called CNN. And I really enjoyed CNN because I was never home by six o'clock at night. And unless I was going out at night, I was asleep before 10 o'clock, because I would get up early, early in the morning and go on my run before going to the office, and one day got a phone call from a recruiter who was recruiting for CNN. And they said, I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, but and I thought, oh, no, I'm really familiar with it. And it's great. I love I love it. I think in many ways, I wanted to try something new that I was, I had been at time for a couple of years. And I really enjoyed it. But the other thing that I was really feeling about time was that everybody had not only an Ivy League degree around me, but also an MBA, if they were going to move up. And so I thought I need to make a decision that I'm either going to go back to school, or I'm going to leave. And so when I got this opportunity at CNN, I thought it's so different culturally, I mean, I didn't even we didn't call it culture, I just called it like, it's very different. And, you know, it was a startup environment, it was a kind of a later stage startup environment, the feeling of watching somebody really lead by taking you into an industry that you're not really sure it's all gonna work out. He's super confident that the world needed 24 hour news. But again, it was in 40% of the US. It wasn't, it was barely in, you know, outside of the US when I joined CNN. And so to watch somebody articulate this dream and the future, there were days when I thought Absolutely, like, we're, we're going to get there, there's going to be 24 hour news gonna be all over the world if you listen to Ted. And then there were other days where I was like, I don't know, I mean, we're like, nobody's watching. So I'm not sure this is all going to happen to think back on those people now. And I say those people, the the early stage entrepreneurs that I happen to have worked for, or worked indirectly for, including Ted Turner, and Steve Jobs. And then Steve Case. I mean, there must have been days when they thought, I don't know that this is all going to happen. And then it did. And so you know, that they have their doubts, you know, that they have their doubters. But you have to figure out how to keep making progress and how to keep innovating, while having a team of people believe that you will, it's a powerful thing. And again, I still, even after having worked for those entrepreneurs, I didn't, I wasn't there because I thought I was going to go start my own company, eventually, I was there because I believed I can put myself in the shoes of people who are supporting me, as, as I, you know, have been growing hint. I mean, it's a it's a really, really powerful position,

Ash Faraj  28:20

I just want to quickly go off on a quick tangent, because I remember your book you also mentioned, you know, this the firt, your your kind of first mentor was a woman, my name is Brooke and how critical that was that you not only supported her at her job, but you also supported her personally. Because when he had first started, you know, her husband had recently passed away, which you had learned. How important do you think in the context of career advancement? was building a personal relationship with your direct report? Was that was that really important? Was it not too important?

Kara Goldin  28:48

You know, I didn't realize it then. But I always believed, again, in the in the power of relationships, and it's easier for me to do my best when I really understand the other person. Right? And and I think that's an really important lesson for people from a educational environment. Or maybe you don't know somebody, but you hear something about somebody, you never really know what somebody is going through, and how, you know, maybe they're there, you feel like they're short with you, or they're explaining something like storytelling is really important. And I always think, what was their journey? Like? How was it different from mine? And picking up again, on those factors and talking to people about maybe those things that you have questions about? Don't fear that because you will show your volt by showing your vulnerability, that's when you're showing your interest and how they're living and it's amazing how many people don't ask those types of questions. So I think connections are more and more important for people, the more empathetic you are as a leader, the more people understand who you are, the better you are to be able to, you know, lead during times of challenging times of crisis,

Ash Faraj  30:16

I can totally relate to that connection is so important to know, you know, why would you work with somebody to like, understand them on a human level. After media, you moved into tech, and a lot of your success in tech can be attributed to your persistence and persuasion. You know, obviously, you're able to land key meetings and convince CEOs and executives, big companies to sign up with AOL, like that was a big part of why you succeeded in tech, how much of those attributes do you think is something that you're born with, versus something that you can kind of learn

Kara Goldin  30:44

being able to take a concept and take it down to a point where anyone can understand it is a huge skill, right? Because what I find is that people invest in what they know, for example, when I say invest, it could mean investing in a company, it could mean investing in people, when you can actually break it down in a way, where it's so simple for people, and there isn't this, there's no ego going on, that maybe people fear that they look stupid, by not understanding something, you can get a lot more done. I've been able to do that for years. So I work really hard to figure out, you know, everything from those math problems to something in gymnastics, that seemed really difficult for me. And I go through a process where I try and figure out, okay, what am I doing differently? That somebody who is having an easy time? With that is able to do and I'll do, I'll ask a lot of questions. So there's my volume vulnerability to try and figure out, Okay, how are you able to achieve something, when you get all of that information, and you actually master something, your ability to go share that with other people? So in the case of AOL, I mean, there was this internet thing that was going on, that people would hear about, I mean, maybe in some ways, it's sort of like web three today, like you hear about it. But you're not really sure NFTs or whatever, you're not really sure. All of a sudden, somebody walks in and says, Okay, this is what it is. And it's really not that hard. It's sort of like this. And you're able to make comparisons really fast. So that people feel like they have the, the cheat sheet, right to be able to make it happen. That was what we were really good at at AOL was saying, people would say, Wait, if I go on AOL, am I actually on the internet? Technically, it wasn't being on the internet. It was on the AOL system, which was on the internet, but it was, those are details that people didn't really need to hear. It looked like the Internet to most people. And they were able to do what they wanted to do. And I think that that was the key thing. Instead of making something so complicated, and hard, that's what Steve and that's what Apple is a master. Right? Like they've been able to make things so simple. There's a lot of technology behind a lot of the things that they've done. But most consumers don't need to know about that. They want a phone that has internet access, and can keep their, their music on it, whatever it is, right? And how that all works. You're not sure. But being able to actually produce a product, give enough information to make people feel part of something. I think it's a skill. That's an important one for people to be able to understand and master.

Ash Faraj  33:52

Yeah, like I remember the when the iPod first came out, when they were first advertising it, they were saying like 500. And there's all these like technical jargon. And then they switched it to like 1000 songs in your pocket. And then when they switched it to that it was, oh, okay, all of a sudden, gigabytes and all this other stuff means. So yeah, simplifying your message, because it was powerful. So you're 34 years old when you were working at CNN. And then you know, you decided to make a career pivot into tech. What might someone aspiring to be? You know, I'm thinking about somebody who's like early in their career, who says, I want to be the head of sales at a certain division or the chief revenue officer of this company, what's something they might not know about that career path?

Kara Goldin  34:31

I never had like a goal around a, I want to go be the chief revenue officer, I want to go be the CEO. I'm not saying that. It's a bad thing to sort of understand where you're headed. But I think sometimes if you have this block where you know you're headed in a certain direction, or you want to be headed in certain direction, and you're not really getting there, that's when you're not allowed to see a lot of other things that are going on, that you should write and A place where you can take risks and chances along the way I think is so critical. And the only way that you're able to do that is to be able to enjoy the journey and explore along the way. And I think that that's so critical.

Ash Faraj  35:15

You know, the story of you know, how and why you started hint as well known, right? Talk about in your book and lots of podcasts. Building a beverage brand is very difficult, like it's one of the most competitive industries. And I'm sure that in the past 15 years, you faced a lot of difficult times. And then you mentioned when people ask you, you know, Hey, isn't it risky, that you're doing this, like, it's a very competitive market? You reply by saying, you know, if I fail, it's just another story, I can tell. Is that what you tell yourself during a difficult time? Is that what gets you through difficult times? Because obviously, 15 years, you know, there's a lot of difficult times bumps, how do you get through those difficult times is that what it is, is it just being able to say, you know, think to yourself, that, that's just another story that I can tell?

Kara Goldin  35:52

Well, I think that the main thing is setting goals along the way, and making sure that people, you know, achieve those goals, but also know that, you know, with every great thing that I've been able to see along the way, you're gonna have challenging times, and you're gonna be able to have those challenges that are really going to be more and more difficult for you to get through. But you have to keep reminding yourself about the times that you got through those challenging times, because that's what is the most important for anyone who has been able to achieve anything. I mean, whether that's an apple or AOL or hints or anything, and, and I think also, you and I were talking about the storytelling, I think being able to share those stories, maybe in some ways for people who do tell those stories, it's therapy, and some ways to sort of take people through those journeys. But I think in addition to that, it hopefully, it will help other people to know that they're not alone, and that they can get through those times when things are really challenging for them. And one of the reasons why I wanted to write my book undaunted was just that, that I felt like I would share stories with audiences or friends or employees about when I had seen some challenging times, and it would help people you would see the spark, you would see how it would lift them in some way to know that they could do something more. So I think that that's, you know, really a key thing that everyone needs to remember, it's not just about kind of weathering a storm yourself, but also being able to figure out that you made it that you learned a lot of things. And that allows you that gives you courage to be able to add confidence to know that you can do a lot more.

Ash Faraj  37:47

You mentioned that you know, being curious and facing your fears is what makes you happy. Do you personally think that risk taking is correlated with a sense of fulfillment, joy or even excitement?

Kara Goldin  37:55

That's an interesting thing. I mean, again, I think like once you have gotten through challenging times, and taking those risks, and you've seen that been, you've been able to weather those kind of storms, there is an excitement, there's an adrenaline that goes on when when you're doing it again. I mean, I think it's it's sort of like being an athlete sometimes where things aren't always perfect, but more than anything, it's when you you know, get up and you work out much harder and smarter, and you figure things out, that you're able to get to a point of achieving something that you really want to but again, I think it really does start with get through a few of those times. With with some wins under your belt then and reminding yourself that you were able to accomplish something that maybe you didn't set out to do early on.  For anybody listening, if you want to hear more about, you know, the journey too definitely pick up a copy of my book. Undaunted, I'm all over social as well at Kara Golden, and hopefully, you'll get a chance to come and read a little bit more and reach out to me, let me know what you think. And also, I have a podcast where I interview a lot of other founders and CEOs that I've met along the way called the Kara golden show that I do every Monday and Wednesday. So hopefully, you'll get a chance to subscribe to that as well.

Ash Faraj  39:30

Thank you for tuning into this episode. Tune in next time to get another dose of inspiring career stories from today's top CEOs, executives and leaders. See you soon

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