Former SeaWorld CEO: Joel Manby

Summary

Joel is the Former CEO of SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment, one of the largest public entertainment companies in the world, Former CEO of Herschend Family Entertainment, one of the largest private entertainment companies in the world, the Former CEO of Saab Automobile,

AND most importantly, the Author of one of the best books I have ever read called “Love Works: Seven Timeless Principles for Effective Leaders”, endorsed by Bill Haslam, Governor of Tenessee, Dan Cathy, President of Chick-fil-A, and congressman John Campbell.

If you'd like to get Joel's book, please visit his website at www.joelmanby.com

Podcast Transcript

Note:  There may be errors to this transcript (some funny, some confusing - we used an automated transcription software!)

Ash Faraj  00:02

Hey, it's ash. Now today's guest is Joel manby. Joel is the former CEO of SeaWorld parks entertainment, one of the largest public entertainment companies in the world, the former CEO of Herschend family and entertainment, and the former CEO of Saab automobile, and most importantly, the author of one of the best books that I have ever read called love works seven timeless principles for effective leaders endorsed by Bill Haslam, Governor of Tennessee Dan Cathy, president of chick fil a and Congressman john Campbell. By the way, if you want a copy, please visit www dot Joel manby.com or get it on amazon.com it's called love works by Joel manby. Joel manby, welcome to the show, my friend.

Joel Manby  00:56

Hey, Ash, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me. And thanks for taking the time to read the book. I appreciate that.

Ash Faraj  01:02

So I'm in a high school classroom with you, Joel, who was Joel,

Joel Manby  01:05

I grew up in Battle Creek, Michigan grew up pretty poor. My dad was a failed entrepreneur, Ash, he had a farm machinery dealership. And that went out of business. And my mother told me after he passed away that in those years, kind of five ish years while he was trying to keep that afloat, where he was only bringing home about $500 a week. So call it 2500 $3,000 a year. And so a lot of tension in our home around that. And I think that was real. It drove me and a lot of ways maybe drove some of my competitiveness and drive. I love my parents dearly. But I also didn't want to be in that kind of environment where money was always such an issue, mostly because of the lack of and so I think that drove me last was a high school student. I know I was thinking about the future and not wanting that. On the other hand, I thought my route there was going to be or I hoped, I hoped it would be professional sports. And so I was a I was a high school athlete played for sports at this baseball and track at the same time, then baseball football. Well, that was until I guarded Magic Johnson, the Hall of Famer and a high school basketball game. Some people today don't even know who Magic Johnson was. But he was a great, great player for the LA Lakers. I guarded him in high school. And I held them to 42 points. So

Ash Faraj  02:32

you know, I looked at 40. That's a lot of points.

Joel Manby  02:34

That was like, state record. He's said against me. But that so that told me I shouldn't be a basketball player. So I dropped basketball, I went in the musicals, my last two years junior and senior year. But then I did play baseball, football in college, and was hoping to be a baseball player, I was invited to go to a tiger tryout camp, and try to be a professional baseball player, but didn't make the final cut, couldn't hit Major League pitching. And so it really wasn't ash till I was a senior in college, that I decided for sure I was going to go into business. And that's when I applied to business school.

Ash Faraj  03:13

Just rewinding a little bit. I think this is an important story. You know, there's a point in your childhood when you were, you know, you had you guys have just won a championship or some kind of celebratory gathering at ain W and you were kind of the only person that your father didn't take know that you didn't go to that celebration. Can you take relive that moment for us

Joel Manby  03:32

that is from the book and thanks for bringing that up. It does relate to the kind of not having resources. We had a city championship game, I hit a Grand Slam in the bottom of the night when the game was one of those unbelievable memories as a child and rounding the bases and everyone's going crazy. And the whole team went out to a and W which which is like a call it up. Whatever today, chick fil a or something like that. And the entire team went but I did. And my mom and dad and I were driving back in the car and it was very upset about it. But did they didn't say anything in the car was just completely silent. And I assumed I was in trouble for some reason. So that night when my mother was putting me to bed was probably you know, nine or 10 years old. And I started crying, sobbing a little bit. And I said to my Mom, why why doesn't dad love me? And she said, Well, he loves you very much. But he's trying to make payroll at the dealership tomorrow. And he just doesn't have the resources to take you out to what they thought was a frivolous spending of money. So that had a huge impact. I mean, that was one of the things I just there to me. It felt like he didn't love me the truth is it was a whole nother reason why. And, but that's part of what drove me I think really hard as a kid to not be in that kind of environment.

Ash Faraj  04:58

I wonder if there are any other things experiences like that that you really vividly remember because there's usually like a few experiences in our childhood that we like really remember that was obviously one of them. Was there any others that you remember?

Joel Manby  05:09

Well, in regards to not having resources, I think just the tension in our home that everything was grilled like anytime we bought anything my dad or just grill us with 30 questions, and you know, why did you get this? Why'd you have to have that? Getting teased in school a little bit about my clothes when I was little, I always had me downs and things that didn't fit my brothers were not my size, but you know, we did the hand me down.

05:36

So Joel attended Albion college, a small liberal arts college in Albion, Michigan, where he graduated valedictorian. Now while in college, one of his professors introduced him to a General Motors executive, and he would interview and land a job at General Motors after school. The after six years, he began his MBA at Harvard while working for General Motors. And after finishing business school, he demanded that he be a part of a startup initiative with in General Motors called Saturn. After about a decade Saab recruited Joel to be their CEO.

06:06

I worked for a lawyer, my junior year in college and an internship and I was actually pre law at the time. As I told you, I didn't decide to go into business till after after I missed the trial camp with this lawyer after this internship, I worked from like, crazy clerking forum and going to all these trials and doing all this prep work. After the end, I said, Neil, do you think I shouldn't be an attorney? And I thought for sure, he'd say, Yeah, you're going to be great that did that. And without any hesitation, he said, No, I don't think you should be an attorney. And I was kind of shocked and hurt at the same time. And I said, Why Neil, and he said, Joel, you're a football player, use a football analogy. Lawyers are the referee of the game, you're the quarterback, you want to be in the action, you want to be leading the action. If you want to be the quarterback go into business, if you want to be the referee, go into law. That was one of the best singular piece of advice I've ever gotten. So I, that's when I switched, you know, with pre law, and then I just switched to economics and finished out and when they went to Harvard, so it's you talk about really impactful moments that I that, that comment from him changed my life, in a lot of ways, I would not have been a good lawyer, that's for sure. But I think it's important. We talked about this real quickly last time is, when I came out of business school, I was looking for a way to differentiate myself in a way. And in this huge company of General Motors, which was at the time, show you how things change. At the time, the largest, the largest company in the world, and the largest per cap, I'm sorry, the largest market cap in the world, shows you how things have changed. And Saturn was the brand new division. This was 1985. That's the context with the Japanese, we're taking over the small car industry in the United States, the domestic manufacturers were losing share dramatically. They started up Saturday to compete with the Japanese and small car market. And long story short, it was incredibly successful at doing that. And but but none of the veterans at General Motors wanted to take this role because it was risky. And they were risk averse. So the learning for your listeners is I got to be at a very senior level within Saturn faster than anybody would have done at General Motors. And then when when Saab wanted a CEO, they specifically wanted a Saturn person. And the reason why is simply if you want to over over simplify. Saturn had a marginal car, but outstanding marketing, outstanding positioning outstanding distribution network best in the industry. And all the data showed that is because we are so purposeful in what we're trying to accomplish. And we hired the right dealers to partner with. Saab, on the other hand, had an unbelievably talented, great, fantastic car, but not so great at marketing or distribution. So they wanted a Saturn person with that strength to come in and couple it with a fantastic car. And as a result, I was able to be CEO of Saab, North America at only 35 or 36, which, for General Motors in that era was incredibly, incredibly young. So to your listeners, you know, to take manage risk, manage risk and help you differentiate yourself. But also, more importantly, I think is to learn more and you learn more faster because you're you're taking out a small division or a riskier element versus kind of being stuck in the clogging wheel of a large corporation.

Ash Faraj  09:46

You're the first opportunity you had at General Motors was how did you get that opportunity?

Joel Manby  09:51

The way I got the interview was one of the board members at Albion was a General Motors executive. My counselor at Albion told this board member you need to, you need to meet this guy. He's not sure what he wants to do, but he wants to be in business. And so the Albion did help me get the interview with this, this jam executive, I can't express to you enough and your listeners, you know, if you're coming out of college or you're early in your career, do not worry about what you want to or what you're going to be position wise or career wise, if you don't know if you know, and you're one of those two to 5% of the population that knows exactly what they want to do. Great for you. That is fantastic. Most of us in our 20s are muddling our way through it, we're finding out more what we don't want to do than what we do want to do. We're running out leaders, we don't want to work for them. And so but don't be if I could say anything about my 20s to the folks listening is don't let that stress you or where are you at I hear young people say, I'm not sure what I want to do. Well, neither did I. And I don't I I didn't feel like I had hit my sweet spot that I was exactly where I was designed to be till I was 40 years old. Now that may be discouraging to the some of your listeners in the 20s, their 20s and 30s. But still, everything I did in my 20s and 30s led me to be a CEO. And then when I got the CEO job, that was the right fit for me, that's when all things clicked together. Everything you do in life, whether it's business or personal, it will teach you something as long as you're a learner. And and and I am a lifelong learner, it'll still pay off for you and don't get too impatient. Don't get too upset if it's not the perfect fit for you. We started talking about this before is I anything in my careers is as successful as it may look, from a resume standpoint, I still felt I left probably one too many times or I jumped jobs one too many times versus sticking it out. And what I was

Ash Faraj  11:58

when GM decided to create like Saturn, and then you know, you kind of stepped up how did that How did that happen? Like, will you just do us raise your hand? Or do they come to you or

Joel Manby  12:10

I actually raise my hand when I was coming back from Harvard, you're supposed to the GM system, the corporate where you're supposed to go back to the division that sponsored you, right, they were the ones getting the check for the tuition. And I felt an obligation then but my true legal. And I thought moral obligation was back to the company as a whole, not just to the specific Division I worked with. I was in a truck and bus division, which it was a tough one. I wanted in this very kind of stuck in this ways. And I think some of the bad culture of General Motors was permitted the heaviest in the truck and bus division, which you can just imagine. So I asked to be in this new startup that I had read about while I was at Harvard, and had to play a little hardball, which is good, maybe for your listeners to hear. I did have a legal obligation and a moral obligation to go back. However, when they didn't give me the Saturn opportunity at first. And at the same time, I was just interviewing at Harvard to see what might stick and click. And I did get an offer from McKinsey. And they offered to pay back what I owe General Motors. But that the so I went to General Motors, I said, Look, I have this offer, I will pay you back the money. That's option one. And we'll part is friends. And I owe you nothing. Option two is I want to work for Saturn within General Motors. And I'd like to do that. And so they they did forgive my liability of the truck division, and then it just became a liability with Saturn. So that's that that is a good example of if you know what you want. Sometimes you have to threaten to leave, I wouldn't play that card very often. You know, you can't, you certainly can't cry. Well, if it's an if it's not true, and it was true. It was true for me. But I still think too often.

Ash Faraj  14:04

You got to play hardball. But it's Yeah,

14:07

you got to be careful. You know, some people say, Well, I got a 10% raise, I'm going to leave some companies will say well, you know, fine, we'll, we'll get you on the rebound.

14:15

This whole thing happened where Saab was like, Hey, we need somebody to come in with and specifically somebody from Saturn that, you know, knows a lot about marketing and distribution networks. What was what was Saab? Like Initially,

Joel Manby  14:26

I can still physically feel it emotionally. And I'm trying to think as I'm processing your question. The first thing is, I I felt I knew what needed to be done as I I didn't say much the first 90 days I listened a lot. And that's rule number one. You go into new thing, new organization, new battle, new contest. I listen a lot more than I talk and I toured, I met with dealers. I met with board members. I met with frontline employees. We even went over to Sweden and met some of the people who are producing the cars and Sweden just heard what all the issues were. And it's amazing how really most of the time people know what needs to be done is either leadership's not listening, leadership doesn't get it, or what's has to happen is too difficult, which is very common. But I listened, I made some quick decisions on the team that was around me some you can just tell I don't need to be on the bus anymore. And then I put a five point plan together, in literally after that 90 days of listening took me about 30 days to get all put together, get the board support, and then went back out to the entire organization, and said, here's our plan. And here's how we're going to achieve it. And those were great moments. That was one of my most favorite career highlights because the people needed and wanted leadership so badly, that they were just so on board with it. Even people who didn't agree with all aspects on it. They really have it, they still really enjoyed having a plan that we were united to try to make happen. It was also an organization is probably coming. It's like coming into the Detroit Lions pro football team right now. They're just perennial losers, they and I'm from Michigan. So I'm, you know, there's nothing worse than trying to be a lions fan. They've never won since the 60s. And there's just a losing mentality in the organization. Savoie had a losing mentality and coming from Saturn, that had such a winning mentality, I noticed that immediately. And it was very dysfunctional culture. People were backstabbing each other, they were blaming each other, no one really took responsibility. So one thing I did specifically that if you have a team of people, and it doesn't have to be CEO, you can just be a team of three people of any organization or any department, I, I took them off site went to a nice little hotel. And I have this simple concept that's actually in the book of how to evaluate each other. And it's just simply putting three, three concepts on a sheet of paper, which is what do I want you to do more of? What do I want you to do less of? And what do I want you to stop doing period. And I put that up for each person's we had eight flip charts. And we literally all of us went up to the other people's boards. And we wrote down what we wanted them to do more of less of same as, and we did that for everybody. And then we just talked about it. And we processed it. And we had complete honesty. And they were angry, there was anger flying, a lot of people were unhappy, but we got to the heart of the issue. And then we slept on it, we came back the next day we processed it. And then we wrote we wrote contracts for each person. So I wrote my own contract with what I was going to do same as less of more of. And everyone did that. So we had contracts that we all signed, and we checked on them about every quarter. And it was just amazing. I know that sounds really simple. But it was one of the best HR processes I've ever put in place. Because people don't tell tend to tell each other the truth, whether it's your boss telling you, are you telling your peers or telling those who work for you. It's usually not as truthful as it should be. And therefore scars form.

Ash Faraj  18:28

There was a point in your career where you, you know, we were at sob and you kind of wanted to like let go over some responsibility, kind of dial it back a little bit to spend some more time with your family and your wife, you know, but your manager your boss said, No.

Joel Manby  18:43

It wasn't your side, North America side, CEO side worldwide. I was CEO South North America. But we had been doing so well in North America that I got a promotion from my boss in Sweden, who was CEO Saab worldwide, to take on Asia and South America. And so I went from just quote unquote, just running the US which was savs biggest market to then adding these two, I would call them bloodshed markets for we're losing so much cash, I just didn't have any idea while they were still open. And anybody on the phone or watching your podcasts or at the phone but listening to your podcasts or watching it. They know going to Asia is a whole nother world. It takes a week to get there. And you got you just got to spend a lot of time there and it was killing my family. And so I asked my boss to just have the US back. He surprisingly said no. And that led to me desiring to leave Saab. And there was another story to where I felt very mistreated by the same boss who chewed me out endlessly actually made me fly to Sweden on a Sunday afternoon and actually was Easter Sunday which for a Christian faith person like me, that's Like, not the day you asked somebody to do something. And he ordered me to fly to Sweden just to chew me out for 24 hours about a one monthly miss when the whole results of our enterprise had been fantastic. And he was under a lot of pressure. And I understand all that now. But those two things made me want to leave. And then boom, when I got a job offer to go to greenlight, I jumped at it. And one learning, I would say, for your listeners that if I had to do it all over again, when he said, No, I'd talk to my wife, I would go back to him and say, Okay, I hear I hear what you said, but I'm going to leave, if I don't get the US I love, I love sob I love you. But I can't do this anymore. And I am going to leave, I think then he would have given me what I wanted. He was he was kind of taken a gamble. And so if the only reason you're leaving can be corrected, I would make absolutely sure that the company knows that before you take the step to leave. Because I love the car industry. And sometimes I wish I had never left it in a way because I loved cars so much. But that's just a good lesson lesson for your listeners to make sure you give your bosses every opportunity to satisfy whatever it is that bothers you.

21:20

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And in a way, you kind of felt like you didn't want to like ruin the relationship. So you had to like compromise, I can feel it too, because you know, you got a big heart. And you know, based on your personality and stuff, you just you're just like, you don't want to let them down at the same time. I totally understand.

21:35

Well, but the other thing I would say, which is if we get to the personal side, I've had a couple Well, one major personal failure. And it's because part of it was my workaholism part of it was my inability to draw lines, my in my complete fear of failure. To the point that I told my family, they were the most important thing to me. I told my wife, I loved her, I told my kids, I love them, but they didn't feel that from me, you know, your intentions, mean nothing. The only thing that mean anything are your actions. We all intend to show our spouses more love, and we tend to spend more time with her, we tend to more intend to spend more time with our friends or family, whatever the issue is. People don't feel your intentions, they only feel your actions. And you didn't ask me this, but I would say to anybody before you decide to run anything, or start anything, or be an entrepreneur or be a CEO, which a lot of people ask me, how do you how do you become a CEO? My first question is, be careful what you wish for or my first statement, and is it something that they truly, truly want? Because it definitely comes at a cost. And I don't care if you're running a small startup or you're running General Motors or you're running apple. It comes at a huge cost. And and you just got to be prepared for that and make sure that your spouse and your family size is signed up with you to do that.

Ash Faraj  23:12

So after four years at sob, Joel felt like he had had enough. And he decided to jump at an opportunity to run greenlight calm which was an online car shopping company that was funded by Amazon and other established firms. Obviously today, we have carmax auto trader and lots of other online car shopping enterprises. But this was back in 1999. And Joel quickly realized that not only the previous CEO leave behind misleading financial reports, but it was too early for consumers to adopt this idea. So you left Saab to join greenlight, obviously, because of the issues. You were having it Saab. And then that green light, there was the thing you had joined in 1999 or somewhere around there. And then the.com bubble crash happened in 2001. Obviously you had to layoff a bunch of the workforce because the crash What were you going through at that time, like in the world?

Joel Manby  24:06

Now it was I felt like I had gone from bad to worse. I knew even This is 1999 it was clear to me the internet was going to be the place that all all commerce eventually transition. And I thought the car industry buying a car was perfectly positioned for that because Buying a car is like getting your wisdom teeth pulled and it's just a bad experience. And it's made bad because it's sashan say all but many dealers just don't treat customers with the respect that they should. It was inherently dishonest process a lot of wheeling and dealing. You never knew what the truth was, and where the internet could strip all that out. And the truth is we're just too early to the game. I mean today, it's very common but back then I think we were just a little early and you can you can get an arrow and you're back in business. Whether it being too early as well as too late. And so we just needed more time to work all through that. And unfortunately the.com boom took all of our cash away. So in essence, I went into it thinking I had three years to get to cash flow breakeven, we thought we had a five year deal with Amazon, we thought we had $15 million in the bank. That's what the numbers said that I was signing up for when I got there, found out that we had to pay most of that 15 million to even launch with Amazon on their website. And we were burning a lot more a month than they had told me they told me 2 million turned out when I got through, they had burned through 5 million the previous month. So we were burning through cash fast. And so all that to say it was what I thought was a three year length of time, we only had about 90 days left. So we had to, you know, lay off everybody and start over. And one lesson there for your listeners is never take on anything from anyone without audited financials. And this was the I mean, this was a Kleiner Perkins syrup. This was an Amazon's involved in a publicly held car company was the third owner. So you would think everything was completely buttoned up. But you know, the CEO is not an honest person at the time, and he didn't think it was valuable to get audited statements and the statements were a lie. So that's one thing is never trust the numbers unless they're audited, and even then be careful.

Ash Faraj  26:26

After just 15 months, greenlight had failed, and Joel received a call from jack Hirshman, who was the chairman of a Christian family entertainment, one of the largest privately held entertainment companies in the country. And jack asked Joel, if you wanted to step in and run the company. Well, it's not that simple. Joel had actually been serving on the board of Hershey and ever since he was at Saab. So jack and other owners had known him for a long time, before jack asked him to be the CEO. The lesson here is that you build trust with other people, the trust you build at will matters. Trust is a form of currency for Joe would spend the next 13 years of his career tertian before leaving to join SeaWorld.

Joel Manby  27:09

Every every big job I've had has had something that's easy to describe him. It's Saturn, it was a startup that was going to change the way cars are bought and sold. And doing a trustful one price way. Inside was it was taking a set of principles and trying to turn around that brand. And that organization according to those principles, at herschend. It was a it was a well run enterprise in the things that have been in Branson for a long time. But as they started to acquire things, the family culture that jack and Pete had in Branson was not emanating out to the other properties. And they were having a hard time growing and keeping the family culture. So their acquisitions were not very successful. My job was to grow the company because the theme park industry in and of itself doesn't grow fast enough for what the family wanted in growth. So my job was to grow it faster by getting into other related businesses and enterprises, but find a way to keep the family own culture. And I absolutely love that task. And that that's what we're trying to accomplish there. And my goal was to take the vernacular of the oceans, and credit created into a language and a training program that everybody will understand. They didn't call it leading with love, they didn't have seven words that we all believed in and behave by. That was my job to do. And that's that's what we set out to do.

Ash Faraj  28:34

What moment Do you remember? Like when I say herschend experience? Or like, you know, your job at Hershey, under your time at herschend? Is there a specific moment or memory that comes to mind?

Joel Manby  28:44

I thought that the angsty I was telling you about that I had when I was in the auto industry. I thought that was just me. Feeling I wish my leaders cared about people more I wish they cared about other people more, not just themselves. Well, it wasn't till I got to Hershey that I saw that there was an example of this. But I still thought it was only me that was feeling this way. When we were on Undercover Boss and 20 million people saw our program, then we started getting inundated with letters and emails of people who say I want to work for a culture like that, too. And that is what prompted me then to write the book to say, people need to understand they need to be given the permission to lead in the way that jack and Pete taught me and then I put together in this book, the vernacular for leading with love. Because so many people, including listeners to your program, right now, they may want a better way they may think there's a better way. They think they have to start their own company to do it, or they have to leave their current job to do it. And that may be true, but there there is hope. And there are examples where this is done. But people need to be given that permission. think people think it's soft, they think it won't get the financial results that it actually does. And that's been proven and I can prove it. So there's a lot of things that go into what are the what are the biggest things I remember about her ship, I have to say the Undercover Boss experience leading to the book. And the book does lead to I know of at least three dozen companies who have taken our principals adapted it for their business, maybe adapted the words, but they've seen a turnaround in their engagement scores, they've seen a turnaround in their lack of turnover now and the increase wages and increase profitability and margin all at the same time. And that's, that's what I want people to understand is you can treat people well, with love and solve very successful enterprise.

Ash Faraj  30:43

So you went from, you know, obviously the largest, from what I understand the largest privately held family entertainment company in the country to now being the CEO of SeaWorld, which is a publicly traded, why did you make that switch like, well, what's the story behind leaving Hershey and joining SeaWorld,

31:01

in hindsight, I would be disingenuous, disingenuous by said, Sometimes, I wonder if I should have done that. At the time. There were some personal reasons that my wife and I thought it would be good to get a fresh start. That was part of it. Part of it was I felt I'd been at herschend. for 13 years, I had done a lot of things I had set out to do. But but the third, and probably most important reason I was open to the changes, I wanted to show that love could work in a public enterprise, not just a private enterprise. And I still believe 100% with all of my heart and soul, that it absolutely is possible. In fact, we did it and the numbers as I was leaving had been a great turnaround. But I am completely certain that with the right board support, and given the right amount of time, this is the only way to lead if you care about other people.

31:59

When I say SeaWorld parks and entertainment, what memory comes to mind.

Joel Manby  32:04

Good and bad. You know, from a good standpoint, the people that were incredible, and they are some of the best team members and frontline employees that I've ever worked with their animal care, folks, everybody on there, they're the zoological team. They're just first class top notch, they really do care about those animals, and they treat them with huge respect to dignity. And anybody who says differently is just lying. But that's the positive side. The negative side is the board relations that I had. I've always had fantastic board relations and every CEO spot I've had or been other public company, board seats. For some reason this this board had two people that I won't mention names, but that crossed the line to me from not just being dishonest, but some people are dishonest. Some people are flat out evil. And there's not many of those in the world. And when you come come up around someone who's evil, it's time to move out and move fast. And the learning for me that I'd share with your listeners is I stayed there too long. I tried to make it work with a couple board members that I just did not trust. But even with all the issues going on in my personal life. At the same time as the Saab Express SeaWorld experience. I think I was so driven by fear of failure that I didn't walk away from a situation I should have walked away with, from should have walked away from because anyone on this list who's listening to your podcast, if they don't trust their leader, it's just time to leave you it's not gonna end well.

34:02

Something I look for when I decide to partner with someone or hire someone is

Joel Manby  34:07

trust,

Ash Faraj  34:08

the most important quality and a leader

34:14

is leading. But you know what? leadership is in such short supply. And we need leaders who lead leaders who blame others who pass the buck.

34:25

The most important life skill is

Joel Manby  34:28

empathy.

34:29

Something I've struggled with as a leader has been

34:33

honesty, telling people the truth about their own performance, which is one of the key words in the book of love works well. The key words is honesty, my own life failures because I wasn't always honest with myself and sometimes not honest with other people.

Ash Faraj  34:48

When I start to feel the urge to be lazy I

Joel Manby  34:53

I asked my wife for listen to do this now. If I ever get lazy or want to give up doing Something I'm so I have so much gratitude for the gifts I've been given the health I've been given resources I've been given that that given, I don't feel right squandering those in any way. So I just feel gratitude.

Ash Faraj  35:18

If I could go back and talk to the 25 year old Joe, I would tell him,

Joel Manby  35:22

I would tell him to not worry about failure. This is one word sorry. But not to worry about failure, failure is a good thing. And to always, always, be honest, because if you don't, it'll come back to bite you in the rear. And

Ash Faraj  35:42

if I could be remembered for just one thing, it would be

Joel Manby  35:45

if it was one word, it would be love. I knew it. Others that I taught, I taught others and I taught my children and those around me to, to love other people. I just think that's so important, especially in this world today.

Ash Faraj  36:02

If I were stranded on an island and I had access to one meal, that meal would be

Joel Manby  36:08

oh my goodness gracious. It would be one of my wife's green chef meal, see or do something green chef on advertising, but completely healthy, like, it's more about it's not about the food, but I want it to be with my wife, just us two together because those are wonderful moments.