Bridget’s career journey begins when she was 5 years old. When her father brought home this brand-new piece of technology called, an apple computer ("apple 2e") She was fascinated with how it worked and her curiosity for computers would continuously grow as she grew older.
She went on to study computer science at Harvard University, and did her first job out of college was at this startup called Plumtree Software, where she would be given lots of responsibility early on in her career, and where she developed many meaningful relationships. One of the people at Plumtree was Glenn Kelman, who was then Plumtree's co-founder, and now is Redfin's CEO (we've had him on the show before as well).
9 years after leaving Plumtree, Bridget joined Redfin after working several different jobs at different companies. During her childhood, Bridget had moved around a lot growing up, so she has a strong connection to Redfin’s mission of helping regular people buy and sell homes. Ever since she joined Redfin in 2011, she constantly feels like she’s working on new and exciting projects that she finds meaning in.
Today, Bridget manages a team of more than 200 engineers at Redfin, serves on the board of Premera Blue Cross, has been awarded many awards, some of which include: 50 Most Powerful Women in Tech (National Diversity Council), Women of Valor 2018 (awarded by U.S. Senator Maria Cantwell), Inman Real Estate Influencers of 2017, 40 under 40 (Puget Sound Business Journal), Leadership in Innovation and Technology: Innovator Award (Puget Sound Business Journal).
00:00:01 Ash Faraj: Hey, it’s Ash. I don’t know how to start or where to start because I’m just so excited for you to listen in to our new season. I guess before we get into the show, I should say welcome back to Season 3 of the ExecuTalks podcast. It’s where we connect you with today’s top executives. You will hear interesting childhood stories. Stories of extreme setbacks and disappointments and ultimately hear the stories behind how these top executives were able to build an amazing career for themselves. So, really quick, before we get into the show, if you’re looking for your next career opportunity and would like some support networking, getting your foot in the door, or just maybe you just feel like you need someone to talk to, we would love to help. Please visit our website at www.ExecuTalks.com and get in touch with us.
00:00:47 Ash Faraj: In this episode, you will hear from Bridget Frey who is the Redfin Chief Technology Officer. Now, Bridget’s career journey begins when she was just five years old when her father brought home this brand-new piece of technology called an Apple computer. She was instantly fascinated with how it worked and her curiosity for computers would continuously grow as she grew older.
00:01:11 Bridget Frey: When I was five, my dad is an appliance sales and repairman and he brought home this giant box. He set it in the middle of our kitchen, and inside was an Apple IIe, an early Apple computer. And, you know, because he’s an appliance repairman for him this was just like a dishwasher where you get the manual and you try to figure out how it works. And so, my earliest memories of computer science are just playing with this computer with my dad and trying to figure out how it worked. I was really drawn to it. We didn’t have anything like this in my house that was this… It was this sort of… I think the way my dad viewed it, I could see it through his eyes how excited he was that unboxing experience and this kind of thing. You know, “Oh, what does this thing do?” I mean, at the time, there was… You couldn’t go online and figure out how to work this thing. So you’re really just tinkering and playing with things and trying all these different things. I think I just liked the freedom of it. I liked the creativity and just this idea that it… The power that was in kind of telling a machine what to do.
00:02:09 Ash Faraj: So Bridget, I’d be kind of curious to hear who were some key people in your life early on that you feel like shaped your life principles that you carry with you today?
00:02:17 Bridget Frey: I think just this idea that whatever you’re doing, you need to figure out how it affects other people and whether the work that you’re doing has meaning not just for you but for others because there’s a lot of different things you can choose to do with your time. My mom is a teacher and now a professor in education, and so just seeing that she had chosen her career. She set it up to work with children who had disabilities, and that was how she wanted to spend her time. I just saw that this direct connection between all the hours that she put into work and just really helping others. That’s something I tried to hold to in my career. So joining Redfin was an opportunity to help people whose lives are in transition. They’re going through a move. I shared with you how I moved a lot when I was child. Just seeing how stressful that is, and then saying as a technologist I have a chance to help people through this major life transition. Sometimes people move for happy reasons. Sometimes they’re going through something. But if I could be part of helping them to get into the right house, there’s really meaning in that work.
00:03:21 Ash Faraj: As human beings we generally have bad memories, but one thing we never forget is how we felt during a certain experience. And the more intense the emotion, the more likely we’re going to remember how we felt. Well, during her childhood, Bridget moved around a lot. She remembers how she felt really lonely because she would always have to make new friends every time she moved to a different school.
00:03:44 Bridget Frey: I moved a lot when I was a kid, so I think some of my memories are just going to a new place. I lived in seven different houses in five different states before I turned 18. Some of my favorite memories are just getting to a new place, joining a new school, seeing a new group of people, and a new group of potential friends.
00:04:02 Ash Faraj: Interesting. And how do you remember feeling as a child?
00:04:05 Bridget Frey: Feeling lonely. Every time I moved there was excitement with it, but there was always also this feeling that everybody else already had friends. They didn’t need me. You walk into a school and everything is already established. I realized pretty early that I was going to have to put myself out there. I think it’s made me a little more extraverted than I might have naturally been which is this experience that when you walk into a room people don’t have to give you the time of day or get to know you. If you want that to be part of your experience, you really have to put yourself out there. I was definitely part of the nerds. Not sure if you can tell that [laughs], but I think I’d come by that… I went to a really large high school. So there were, I think, about 2,000 students or something. There were a lot of kind of clicks and divides within that high school. I definitely gravitated, I think, towards kids who just like academics, who wanted to put time to… You know, I was a mathlete. I was on the computer science programming team and all the rest. I don’t know, that’s just what I was drawn to, I guess.
00:05:10 Ash Faraj: After high school, Bridget was accepted into Harvard and she studied computer science to fulfill her deep curiosity and passion for computers. But while she was at school, she was able to land an internship where she quickly realized that there are so few women in the industry. One thing that Bridget strongly encourages folks who are still new in their careers, especially women, is to reach out and meet new people who are in a position to help. Because at the end of the day, people want to help. It’s natural.
00:05:39 Bridget Frey: I came in with this idea that computer science is really what I wanted to study. I dabbled in a few other things. Harvard gives you the chance to take a lot of different classes, but I was pretty much on that path. I did debate though for a while, you know, academics. I told you this professor that I admired. I liked this idea that you could do deep research. My favorite class was the operating systems, so just getting into the guts of how a computer works. But then I realized that in computer science it is possible to do really deep technical work in industry. I found that I liked the competitive spirit that you have from working in corporate America, for better or worse. It’s something that has motivated me. Just this idea that there’s a commercial aspect to it. If people want to spend money with their company, you have to impress them. You have to do something that matters to them.
00:06:30 Ash Faraj: Did you do any internships while you were at college?
00:06:33 Bridget Frey: Yes. Motorola was my first internship. When I walked in the door there, I quickly realized that I was going to be basically the only woman on a floor of 150 engineers. I actually had a full bathroom all to myself. It had a women’s lounge with a couch in it. I mean it was like this… It was this amazing kind of experience, but it just showed that there weren’t a lot of people who looked like me who were in the company. Whereas at Harvard, I was surrounded by a lot of different people from a lot of different backgrounds and I really thrived on that. I think it’s one reason why I had tried to set up my career to help develop more of that diversity wherever I’ve been, especially at Redfin, just to make sure that there are more voices or people from more backgrounds -- that you find out how to bring a more diverse group of people in your company because I think you can make more money that way. It’s a better environment. It’s more the kind of place that I want to work.
00:07:32 Ash Faraj: So Bridget, I’d be curious to hear what advice would you give to somebody in their mid-twenties who maybe is feeling a little lonely right now.
00:07:38 Bridget Frey: I think it’s, first of all, to let yourself feel the way that you feel. If you feel lonely embrace that and kind of remember later in your career maybe when you have more power, when you’ve taken on more responsibility, just remember what it feels like for people who are in that situation. But I’d also just encourage folks to reach out and find others. Find folks who are like you. To see you outside of your company if you have to. The tech industry is very big and increasingly there are places you can go to get advice, to make friendships, to network with folks who maybe share more of your background. And then as you progress through your career, take stock and say, “Hey, now is the time when I can give back.” Maybe you can’t quite make time to do that when you’re in early twenties, but later in your career. If there’s something that you can do to give back to bring others in, to welcome them, and make it feel a little less lonely than it did.
00:08:32 Ash Faraj: Not sure if you remember, but we had Redfin CEO Glenn Kelman on our show in Season 1. Glenn’s first start-up was actually Plumtree Software which is where Bridget’s first job was out of college, and now they’re working together again at Redfin. So never underestimate the seeds you plant early in your career. The seeds of relationships you build at your school, your job, or anywhere you go in life. When Bridget started at Plumtree, they asked her what she wanted to own, what she wanted to work on, because they had so much going on. So, early in her career, Bridget was able to direct her energy and choose what to work on because she worked for a smaller company that needed work from different aspects in the business.
00:09:11 Bridget Frey: I graduated from Harvard back in 1999, and it’s hard to realize, at this point, that back then there weren’t a lot of companies who were recruiting on Harvard’s campus for computer science graduates. There wasn’t a big career fair. You weren’t bombarded with offers. At the time, the program was quite small. I actually knew a couple of people who were at Stanford, which was a little earlier in it’s embracing of computer science. They had a career fair. They pointed me at the website of the BASES Career Fair, which is a Stanford student group. I just went through all the companies and I found one. It was a start-up which seemed interesting to me. And I just send cold emails to them. Some of them wrote me back. I interviewed and Plumtree was one of those. I felt like Plumtree at the time that Plumtree was… The business was called a corporate portal which, again, you have to really rely on history to even realize why it was important. It was basically software to build a company Intranet. At this point every company has an Intranet. You can go and find all the things you need on this Intranet. You can search for documents. You can connect your HR systems. There’s ways that you can do this in every company now, but back then there wasn’t. And so, what Plumtree was trying to do was sort of help companies make sense of all this digital information that they had, bring it all together into a single experience, and help people find knowledge within their company. We built the first corporate portal. I loved that mission, again, just technology helping people with their jobs. It seemed very, like a very direct way to making a difference.
00:10:46 Ash Faraj: So Bridget, if I’m a new professional, should I go work for a small company or a large company? What are the differences, pros and cons?
00:10:54 Bridget Frey: I found that I like companies that are growing and experiencing all the joy and all the pain that goes along with that growth. I like when things are a little bit messy; when you have to kind of roll up your sleeves and try to fix the different problems that can arise as your company is growing. Things never grow in the right order. So there’s an opportunity for… If you’re a software engineer, you’re in any other part of the company there’s often an opportunity to get more exposure to the business just because something over here is breaking, something over here needs your help. I have found that I gravitate towards companies that are going through a lot of growth versus very early-stage or companies that are more established and there’s less opportunity; say, if you work at Google to sort of get into the guts of how HR works, or something. Maybe there are some opportunities like that versus at Redfin, because we’re growing, because there are so many things that we could decide to work on, that would strengthen us as we grow. I’ve had an opportunity to work all over the business and all different kinds of things. I just really enjoy that. If you want to focus on, say, software engineering and you don’t want to necessarily have to think about problems in other parts of the business or you want to stay really focused, you want to go deep technically, there’s a lot of different kinds of places you can do work for that but large companies often have those sorts of opportunities. If you want to get really, really deep on a particular technology, often a large company is then a good place where you can do that, but I just wanted to move around a little. I wanted to work on different things.
00:12:29 Ash Faraj: And so, Plumtree was a small company when you worked there, right?
00:12:33 Bridget Frey: Yeah. When I came in, there was just this realization that Plumtree definitely didn’t have everything figured out. I think coming in as a college graduate, you think you’re going to join a company… I had this impression that things would be sort of buttoned up and they’d have a role for me, and I’d get assigned a project and someone who would really help me with that. But it was a little more, “Oh, well, all hands-on deck. There’s all kinds of things that we got to build. What do you want to own?” And I said, “How about the authentication system?” And they were like, “Great!” They were happy to have someone right out of college, you know. I felt like I had more confidence [laughs] than was perhaps warranted. But, you know, I suddenly found myself pretty early on just owning single sign-on strategy for how we were going to connect all of these pieces of software, all their security systems. I bought some books and I just started reading. I started figuring it out. I figured out which other engineers I could learn from. Somehow, I got it done. But looking back it’s amazing how much responsibility sometimes a small company will give to folks because there isn’t anyone else to do that work. I think if you can join a company where everything isn’t already owned, where every problem doesn’t already have a de facto owner, and you can actually early in your career, you can be the owner. You can be the expert. You can go deep on something. You can be the “go to” person. You can actually do that very early in your career. You don’t have to be an expert on absolutely everything, but I’d encourage people to become an expert on something even if it’s one line of code, even if it’s one documentation piece. Just find something that you’re the expert on and then grow from there.
00:14:14 Ash Faraj: So Bridget, can you tell us a little bit about how you grew within Plumtree?
00:14:19 Bridget Frey: Yes, so one thing that came up there was after a couple of years. There was an opportunity for me to become a manager, and that was something that I thought I wanted to do in my career. But the first opportunity came up when I was about two years in, and I think I had imagined that I would be a software developer for longer. And I think a lot of people tell you, “Oh, once you become a manager there’s no looking back, so, you know, you should stay technical as long as possible.” And that was what my manager’s advice was. “Hey, you probably shouldn’t take this manager role. You know you’re going deep on security and all this other stuff. You should really just keep doing that.” But folks outside of Plumtree, and I got different advice, which was, “Why don’t you give it a shot? Like, it’s not that you can’t become a manager for a little while. It’s not a one-way door the way they tell you it is.” And for me it ended up not being a one-way door. I took the management job. I learned a whole lot. But then in my career I went back and forth a bunch of times. I was a product manager, a program manager, an engineer, [indiscernible], and I just went back and forth between the roles. I think each time I gained empathy for what the other roles go through. It just shows you it’s just not that the product manager want you to file all your bugs and write all this documentation. Once you are a product manager, you realize why that is important in building great software. So, just building empathy by changing roles versus looking at it as this straight-line path from software engineer to chief technology officer. That is not how it worked for me. [Indiscernible] advice from different people who’ve known you at different points in your life, and they kind of remind you who you are as you go through all this. People who kind of see the essence of you and remember what you said you wanted to be in the past.
00:15:58 Ash Faraj: How did you know it was time to move on from Plumtree?
00:16:02 Bridget Frey: Part of it was personal because I relocated to Boston with my now-husband. But it was also after four or five years, I was kind of ready for another experience at that point. I felt like I had learned what I could learn from Plumtree. Plumtree’s road map had also gotten to this point where [indiscernible] product was [indiscernible]. A lot of what Plumtree was trying to do at that point was convince companies that they needed this software and to sell the software. It felt like there was less that an engineer could do to make a difference there, and there’s others who were there that [indiscernible] kind of felt that way too. There was a clear breakpoint. So I decided to change jobs at that point and worked on a bunch of different things after that. Where I was in my career, what Plumtree needed at that point, what my interests were, I just felt like I had squeezed the lemon. I tried to get as much as I could out of that experience. I’d given everything to it and there was… It comes down sometimes to a feeling, I think. Just, you know, it’s time to try something else.
00:17:04 Ash Faraj: So, other than Glenn, who else have you kept in touch with from your experience at Plumtree?
00:17:09 Bridget Frey: Plumtree was a place where I think I made a lot of really important connections. I’ve actually… Every company that I’ve worked at since Plumtree, either I recruited someone from Plumtree there or they recruited me. Every single company, there’s been at least one other person that I was working with. There’s several people at Redfin now who are from those early days. I think that just being in the crucible back then you made… We just kind of saw each other at each other’s best and worse. I think it created these bonds that have lasted through our careers and been really special. When I met Glenn, we were very early in our careers at that point, but I think that we just we enjoyed talking with each other about hard problems and creativities. I think Glenn is also someone who looks for meaning in the work that he does, and you’ve probably heard both of us talk about that. So when I eventually moved to Seattle, between knowing Glenn and others who were at Redfin, but also the fact that it was in real estate -- I have these personal experiences with moving that I have mentioned -- that I just found this place that mission was going to connect with a great group of people for me to work with. And I think as I’ve gone through my career, I’ve realized like the people that you work with that’s one of your tough job perks really. If you find a group of people who are going to challenge you, who are going to be there with you late at night when something needs to get done, who aren’t going to let you down, that makes you work harder. That makes you learn more. And so, I really value that, and so those things kind of came together when I joined Redfin.
00:18:43 Ash Faraj: So, nine years after leaving Plumtree, Bridget joined Redfin after working several different jobs at different companies. If you remember early in the story, Bridget had moved around a lot growing up. So she has a strong connection to Redfin’s mission of helping regular people buy and sell homes. Ever since she joined Redfin in 2011, she constantly feels like she’s working on new and exciting projects which she finds meaning in. I want you to really internalize this concept of finding meaning in work, because having meaning in work gives you high-quality fuel and empowers you to really succeed beyond what you would have imagined.
00:19:22 Bridget Frey: You know, when I was growing up my parents when we would move, we had to go to all these different real estate agents to find out what was for sale. There was no MLS or inventory or website where you could see homes for sale. You always felt like the real estate agents were holding something back or who’s on your side? How do you navigate this? Were the people just telling you a story? This idea of bringing transparency to all of this, putting all the homes for sale on a map. Just showing any piece of data that we can show without a login wall for anyone who wants to see it and just break down those barriers to help people make the right decisions.
00:19:59 Ash Faraj: So, when you got to Redfin, did you have a 5-year plan?
00:20:02 Bridget Frey: I’ve never been that type of person to have the 5-year plan. Maybe I should try that some day and see how it works out. [laughs] But I’ve never been… That’s never been the way I look at… I think I live a little bit more in the moment. Is the work that I’m doing interesting? I can’t say that I joined Redfin with an expectation to be there for the long haul necessarily, but I was committed to… Once I took on responsibility that the things I said I was going to do, I was committed to doing. The thing is there’s just been fun stuff to work on all along the way. The business has grown. There are new opportunities. There’s still plenty of ways for technology to make real estate better and less expensive for our customers. I just keep reconnecting [indiscernible]. I keep finding interesting projects to work on and as long as that’s the case there’s no reason not to stay.
00:20:51 Ash Faraj: Was there ever a moment, like a breakthrough moment in your career?
00:20:57 Bridget Frey: I got to a certain point in my career in my early thirties where I had taken on more responsibilities, but I wasn’t quite breaking through into being an executive and I aspired to do that. I started talking to people about why that was, and someone actually told me, “You’re just not that strategic.” I found that to be [laughs] kind of disheartening. I just didn’t understand what it meant. But I realized that this was leading to sometimes some big decisions being made where I was asked to give input, but I wasn’t there when the decision was being made. There was a group of executives that would go up and make that decision. I was trying to figure out why don’t I have a seat at that table or what is it? There’s very little that, I think, is written about this subject. But in talking with other people, I’m not the only one who’s gotten that message at some point and not like a lot of coaching on how to get through it. So I’m a software engineer. I like to break problems down into little pieces. I just started thinking what does that mean to not be strategic? What are all the pieces? It led to just some insights about, “Oh, well to be strategic you have to go really deep on the data and understand what that is.” You have to figure out what’s been tried in the past and be an expert on all these things. And then there will be people who will say, “Well, that won’t work.” Well, you’ve got to go find out what was tried and really be able to speak to that. You can’t just come in with some idea where you haven’t done all the homework. So just breaking it into pieces and saying like, “Well, here’s how you need to show up.” And watching people I admired who are strategic planners and eventually finding a way to break through. Now I am an executive, and I feel I have made strategic contributions. So how can I help others get to that same point because I think that a lot of people get stopped in their career. I’m always looking for ways to help people break through.
00:22:47 Ash Faraj: You know obviously you lead a team of 200 people and you’ve had a lot of experience hiring people. What’s something that you look for in potential employees?
00:22:57 Bridget Frey: We really hire for engineers who are collaborative. It’s something that we have built our team around. I think it’s actually important to our business which requires engineers and real estate agents to work together as equals on very hard problems. We need to hire engineers who have empathy for what the real estate agent is going through. Who don’t expect to just come in, build software until it [indiscernible] because this does not work in real estate. We look for engineers who have those natural tendencies. But I think especially when people come in earlier in their career, they may not have those experiences with working a long period of time on a very complex set of problems. Often, colleges are set up where maybe you have some small group projects that last a couple of weeks and you kind of [indiscernible] we won and move on to the next thing. So you don’t have these experiences with collaborating for a really long time with legitimate disagreements. So we’ve done a lot of training in helping people with techniques for how do you disagree respectfully? How do you show up for other people making sure that folks are getting back, answering questions, helping people come on to the team? So that’s something that we really invest in, but it can be a blind spot. I think some people come in and they think that they’re not going to have to work with other people or they can make their own decisions all the time. It’s just not how…[laughs]. We also look for people who connect with the mission of Redfin. We’ve just found that when people when they like real estate, when they care about people who are moving, that they build better software. So we’re really looking for folks who want to get deep with the mission.
00:24:35 Ash Faraj: Hey guys. Thanks for sticking around and listening to Bridget’s story. We are now at the last segment of our interview called “Connection Questions” where we ask questions that allow you to connect with our guests on a very deep level.
00:24:49 Ash Faraj: So Bridget, if you were to meet the 25-year-old Bridget, what advice would you give to her?
00:24:54 Bridget Frey: To look for something that you really believe in. To work on projects where you really connect with it and, if you’re not feeling that, go ahead and move on.
00:25:02 Ash Faraj: What in your life you feel like has given you the greatest sense of fulfillment?
00:25:07 Bridget Frey: I think when I’m able to build software that really helps someone. When I can hear about how a customer was able to use something that we built and it made something easier for them or they got into their dream house because we were able to introduce them to a particular home. Those are the types of moments that really mean a lot. Those small moments.
00:25:27 Ash Faraj: Obviously, you have a long career ahead of you but just kind of looking forward into the future. If you could be remembered for just one thing, what would you want that to be?
00:25:36 Bridget Frey: For building an engineering team that lots of different people can work in. Where it’s respectful and constructive and you’re competitive and you’re building great software, but people are really taking care of each other. I think it’s something I talk about when people leave Redfin. There are people who come and go over the years, but I talk with them about just taking something they learned about our culture and what’s special about it and bring that expectation to other places that they work. I think a lot of techs has a reputation for not being very welcoming. But once people have an experience, which they hopefully have at Redfin, that you can be on an engineering team that’s welcoming. You’ll go ahead and demand that of other companies too if possible.
00:26:17 Ash Faraj: In your opinion, what is the most important life skill?
00:26:21 Bridget Frey: I think listening to others. I think just making sure that you take the time to understand where other people are coming from before you form an opinion that that will get you further. Listening, slowing down, before you come to an opinion. It’s something I have to work on all the time. You know, I’m someone who likes to make quick decisions but sometimes you just have to slow down. You’ve got to hear where someone’s coming from.
00:26:45 Ash Faraj: What’s the best advice that someone has ever given you?
00:26:48 Bridget Frey: The best advice is just to… I talked about this a little earlier, but to find something to own. To find something that’s yours. To find something to be an expert in. But you have to carve that out wherever you are. To not just follow others and be part of a team but also just make something that is you; that you really put your heart and soul into. It can be something small but try and find those opportunities.
00:27:12 Ash Faraj: What advice do you have for someone in their mid-twenties who hasn’t found their passion yet? What steps should they take?
00:27:18 Bridget Frey: I’d kind of encourage looking for people who know you, whether they’re in your industry or not. Go back through people you went to college with. People who knew you in high school. See if you can get a virtual coffee [laughs] with them and ask for their advice. Tell them what you’re going through. Share with them how you’re feeling. See if they can replay that back to you and help you see yourself in a different light.
00:27:43 Ash Faraj: What so far has been the happiest day of your life?
00:27:47 Bridget Frey: One of the most exciting days for me was the day that Redfin went public. It was actually my 40th birthday and that was the day that we went public. The bankers at Goldman Sachs made me this cake and came out and sang “Happy Birthday” to me. It was very surreal. We were up in the tower at Goldman Sachs overlooking New York City. And, you know, to some extent going public it is a milestone. It’s another fundraising event. Maybe you wonder why we put so much stock into this particular event, but for us it was this celebration of getting to a new phase in our mission. We brought the longest tenured employees with us to ring the bell. We had 40 or 50 other people who’d been at Redfin the longest. Just all being there and just saying, “Look where we were able to get to. Look what we’ve built. Look how many people we’ve been able to help along the way and how much more we still have to go.” It was just a really exciting day.
00:28:46 Ash Faraj: And then the last one is, which is my favorite, if you were stranded on an island and you had access to one meal, what would that meal be for you?
00:28:54 Bridget Frey: I think it’d have to be spaghetti. That’s always what I go to. [laughs] I just love that meal. I guess I’m going to have to go with that straight-up comfort food.
00:29:06 Ash Faraj: Thank you so much for listening. Now, if you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts. It only takes a few seconds, but it’s worth so much to us. We are helping new professionals in a very unique way. We need people to hear about it. We need you to help us reach more people by leaving us a rating and review. My name is Ash. Thank you again for listening to the ExecuTalks podcast. We’ll see you next week.